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4kinboost
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Joined: 14 Apr 2005
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Location: smithtown
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 Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| EnzoRacing wrote: | | 4kinboost wrote: | I don't think you are trying to imply that $1,000 bucks in parts with a tune is going to get you 800hp right? Since this a bang for the buck discussion, how much did it take to build that 800hp mustang? Please include fuel system, turbo-kit, intake/exhaust mods to give us an idea. With that said, please include suspension mods to get that irs to handle 800 to the ground in a straight line ok!
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I never said that so don't assume...
However for less then $1000 u could tune it, put a pulley on it, and exhaust and make 600hp. u could trade your IRS for a solid axle or sell it and buy an 8.8 solid for almost nothing and use the leftover money for more parts..
Let's see you make that kind of power with an evo with the same amount invested... |
$1,000,,,,,,hhahahhaaaaaa
http://www.mustangmonthly.com/techarticles/mump_0812_how_to_dyno_tune_a_supercharged_svt_cobra/index.html
I rest my case. |
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EnzoRacing
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Joined: 01 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| 4kinboost wrote: |
Last time I checked, this wasn't a dyno challenge. So with your 600hp mustang, you now have a 3700lbs+ car that smokes the tires, goes nowhere near turns, and only does roll racing.
Sorry if I care about turning, fuel economy, ergonomics, power-to-weight ratio and comfort..... I guess 'bang for the buck' doesn't mean the same to you. |
I'm not going to argue with you anymore since I could care less since i don't own either car..
But you need an open mind since your so biased towards your Evo...
600hp mustangs could go 9's with the right driver. The will also take corners quite well.
I wonder which car held the record at bridgehampton ? fox body mustang anyone...
They only smoke the tires if you want them too.. I dont' get how you can even comment that a mustang is only good for roll racing? you have no clue... What cars are running 6's on drag radials? Get out of your mitsu daydream and join the rest of the world... |
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4kinboost
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Location: smithtown
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:30 am Post subject: |
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| EnzoRacing wrote: | | 4kinboost wrote: |
Last time I checked, this wasn't a dyno challenge. So with your 600hp mustang, you now have a 3700lbs+ car that smokes the tires, goes nowhere near turns, and only does roll racing.
Sorry if I care about turning, fuel economy, ergonomics, power-to-weight ratio and comfort..... I guess 'bang for the buck' doesn't mean the same to you. |
I'm not going to argue with you anymore since I could care less since i don't own either car..
But you need an open mind since your so biased towards your Evo...
600hp mustangs could go 9's with the right driver. The will also take corners quite well.
I wonder which car held the record at bridgehampton ? fox body mustang anyone...
They only smoke the tires if you want them too.. I dont' get how you can even comment that a mustang is only good for roll racing? you have no clue... What cars are running 6's on drag radials? Get out of your mitsu daydream and join the rest of the world... |
Are they running 6's with $2,000 invested?
lol,,,,,j/k
By the way-- there's no such thing as a 9 second mustang that handles-- jfyi.
Out of curiosity, how old are you?
PS..
Enjoy the vid!!
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/518HP-blown-cobra-vs-Evo_7258.htm |
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GaryChios
NYCCDSM Member
1990 Eclipse GSX
Joined: 16 Nov 2001
Posts: 3644
Location: New York
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:16 am Post subject: Re: tuning |
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| siony wrote: | | I heard Ivey is locking ECU after tuning is done, and then if you want to do some further tunning with your ecu you are screwed. I was recommended to go to chevyeater , guy from LI with my evo8 for tuning. |
I would never have thought Sean did that. Guys who lock ECU's are morons. Some of the best tuners I have met do not do that. People who lock ECU's have something to hide or just want to charge you everytime you need something. Thats BS. I would stay away from them. If Sean is doing that, I am shocked. Tunning is not a freaking secret or art. Its basic science. You basically tune for the Ve of the car.
If you guys need tuners, you can go to Joe or Vinny, or a sleu of others. You can google and find toooners as well.
Turbotrix, Pruven in NJ etc.
_________________
Mods.
Something much faster than JR... <<<Gary runs for cover.
http://garychios.com |
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Kwik GSeX
NYCCDSM Member
1993 Eclipse GSX
Joined: 16 Nov 2001
Posts: 3027
Location: Queens, NY
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| 4kinboost wrote: | | Kwik GSeX wrote: | | TalonTid wrote: | My evo went 12.2 and trapped 114 on it's 3rd pass with prob under 2k of work, with a 1.6 60ft, and the boost wasn' all the way up. I sold the car before I ever got to go back to the track but it def had a faster et in it. That is def respectable for a 4cy and forget the mustang. You guys forget one thing. The Mustang is made in the good ol' USA, so it's basically junk. At least my Evo was cool  |
Wow dude.. Got something against the USA? Considering DSM's were built in the USA then we can call them junk too.. You obviously have not been paying attention to what Ford has been putting out lately.. That 03 and up Cobra motor has been known to go 700rwhp on a stock short block.. Lets see an EVO do that at 500 awhp..
Alot of you guys are domestic haters yet you need to realize that in a straight line pound for pound a Mustang or a Vette will walk all over an Evo and a Scooby.. Around the bendy bends is another story.. |
It also has twice the cubes, weighs 4-500lbs more, and is rear-wheel drive.
God bless you for being a mustang fan on a dsm website... Tell ya what, why don't you get a couple of your mustang buddies with street cars on a radial to come on down and put your theories to the test.
I'm sure that some of my stock turbo clients wouldn't mind handing out a few awd lessons to them. We can save my t3 guys for your kenny bell cobras.
Let me know when you can get a few guys together-- maybe 5? We can do it for fun or all put in on a pot. Enough chatting--more racing. |
You really don't wanna tempt me megale.. There are more 8 second FULL street Mustangs on the Island than you know.
Btw I'm also quite partial to EVOs and DSM's hence me owning one for 7 years so I'm not biased to just Mustangs. But like I said before the EVO is not the best bang for your buck when you wanna go fast.
I stand by my original statement that the Mustang reigns supreme in that category. Brand new 2009 stang GT with a turbo kit will put you in the mid 11s for less than the price of a new EVO
_________________
Dennis
Team FKR.. aka "FKR_Thinktank"
Go BIG or go POOF!!
| Luke_Crankwalker wrote: | | Dennis is just the earth's maker, thats all. |
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GaryChios
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1990 Eclipse GSX
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:21 am Post subject: |
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When I say Vinny, I mean Enzo.
Also Joe is Joe from ZRP. |
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4kinboost
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Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 236
Location: smithtown
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| Kwik GSeX wrote: | | 4kinboost wrote: | | Kwik GSeX wrote: | | TalonTid wrote: | | My evo went 12.2 and trapped 114 on it's 3rd pass with prob under 2k of work, with a 1.6 60ft, and the boost wasn' all the way up. I sold the car before I ever got to go back to the track but it def had a faster et in it. That is def respectable for a 4cy and forget the mustang. You guys forget one thing. The Mustang is made in the good ol' USA, so it's basically junk. At least my Evo was cool |
Wow dude.. Got something against the USA? Considering DSM's were built in the USA then we can call them junk too.. You obviously have not been paying attention to what Ford has been putting out lately.. That 03 and up Cobra motor has been known to go 700rwhp on a stock short block.. Lets see an EVO do that at 500 awhp..
Alot of you guys are domestic haters yet you need to realize that in a straight line pound for pound a Mustang or a Vette will walk all over an Evo and a Scooby.. Around the bendy bends is another story.. |
It also has twice the cubes, weighs 4-500lbs more, and is rear-wheel drive.
God bless you for being a mustang fan on a dsm website... Tell ya what, why don't you get a couple of your mustang buddies with street cars on a radial to come on down and put your theories to the test.
I'm sure that some of my stock turbo clients wouldn't mind handing out a few awd lessons to them. We can save my t3 guys for your kenny bell cobras.
Let me know when you can get a few guys together-- maybe 5? We can do it for fun or all put in on a pot. Enough chatting--more racing. |
You really don't wanna tempt me megale.. There are more 8 second FULL street Mustangs on the Island than you know.
Btw I'm also quite partial to EVOs and DSM's hence me owning one for 7 years so I'm not biased to just Mustangs. But like I said before the EVO is not the best bang for your buck when you wanna go fast.
I stand by my original statement that the Mustang reigns supreme in that category. Brand new 2009 stang GT with a turbo kit will put you in the mid 11s for less than the price of a new EVO |
It seems to me that you guys took my statement out of context.
Please find where I said anything about building a 6-8 second race car?
Bang for the buck means getting the most car for the money. Dollar for dollar the evo responds/rewards the owner with the most useable power for an everyday driver. I have been a fan of dsm's for years-- and now mitsu has evolved the platform. You can cheer for mustangs all you want, unless you're at a prepped track, with the right tire at the right pressure -- YOU WILL GET OWNED.
You are entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine. I think this topic is pretty much beaten down at this point. |
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Kwik GSeX
NYCCDSM Member
1993 Eclipse GSX
Joined: 16 Nov 2001
Posts: 3027
Location: Queens, NY
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| GaryChios wrote: | When I say Vinny, I mean Enzo.
Also Joe is Joe from ZRP. |
Enzo sucks for imports. He only tunes Mustangs now
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Dennis
Team FKR.. aka "FKR_Thinktank"
Go BIG or go POOF!!
| Luke_Crankwalker wrote: | | Dennis is just the earth's maker, thats all. |
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Kwik GSeX
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1993 Eclipse GSX
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Posts: 3027
Location: Queens, NY
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:08 am Post subject: |
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| 4kinboost wrote: |
It seems to me that you guys took my statement out of context.
Please find where I said anything about building a 6-8 second race car?
Bang for the buck means getting the most car for the money. Dollar for dollar the evo responds/rewards the owner with the most useable power for an everyday driver. I have been a fan of dsm's for years-- and now mitsu has evolved the platform. You can cheer for mustangs all you want, unless you're at a prepped track, with the right tire at the right pressure -- YOU WILL GET OWNED.
You are entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine. I think this topic is pretty much beaten down at this point. |
I never said anything about an 8 second race car. I'm talking about an 8 second street car. You know full interior, power windows and dare I say it AC. And if you comparing new cars the Mustang will OWN an EVO in bang for the buck. The GT starts off almost $15k cheaper. That's a lot of modifications you can do.
But like you said this thing has been beaten to death. You've got your opinion and I've got mine (which is the right one )
_________________
Dennis
Team FKR.. aka "FKR_Thinktank"
Go BIG or go POOF!!
| Luke_Crankwalker wrote: | | Dennis is just the earth's maker, thats all. |
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teamzrp
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:52 am Post subject: |
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i got tired of reading.
too long , but i'll agree with alot of guys on here the cobra and z06 will smoke just about evreything with little money.
that guy that clamed that an evo will go 10's with just barly 500 whp and on a stock short block , i would love to see that and not just a miracle pass and not gutted let me see you do 10 3 times at the track on the same day with a good driver . 70% says no way and that is the truth.
on the locked ecu that would not be thew tuner but more for the program you are using.
ecutech has a built in thing that will lock the ecu for enybody else other than subaru and ecutech tuners and that is it. sometime it will lock out subaru as well and the 2 options you have is new ecu or flash to stock but does not garrenty that it will be accable.
i love the evo's by the way, but they are weak in stock format and those motors are good till a point. i have seen them break at 23 psi and make 360 whp and have seen them at 23 psi make 450 whp. it all depends on the luck on the manufact and supplier putting out the parts. i also seen guys put rods out the block at 470whp on the evo's.
i built and evo and put down 490 whp at 22 psi but the driveline and the weight of that car don't get along and the timeslip will not either.
there are alot of clams out there , i don't believe shut up and put out . bring it and line it up and we'll see what story works at the tree.
everything else is a sales pitch. prove it i got nothing to hide |
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hks-gst
NYCCDSM Moderator
1995 Eclipse GS-T
1998 Eclipse GSX
Joined: 08 Aug 2005
Posts: 2172
Location: Long Island, NY
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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You guys are comparing a $70k Z06 to a $20K Evo 
I have a feeling this thread is going to go on forever.
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GaryChios
NYCCDSM Member
1990 Eclipse GSX
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Posts: 3644
Location: New York
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| teamzrp wrote: | i got tired of reading.
too long , but i'll agree with alot of guys on here the cobra and z06 will smoke just about evreything with little money.
that guy that clamed that an evo will go 10's with just barly 500 whp and on a stock short block , i would love to see that and not just a miracle pass and not gutted let me see you do 10 3 times at the track on the same day with a good driver . 70% says no way and that is the truth.
on the locked ecu that would not be thew tuner but more for the program you are using.
ecutech has a built in thing that will lock the ecu for enybody else other than subaru and ecutech tuners and that is it. sometime it will lock out subaru as well and the 2 options you have is new ecu or flash to stock but does not garrenty that it will be accable.
i love the evo's by the way, but they are weak in stock format and those motors are good till a point. i have seen them break at 23 psi and make 360 whp and have seen them at 23 psi make 450 whp. it all depends on the luck on the manufact and supplier putting out the parts. i also seen guys put rods out the block at 470whp on the evo's.
i built and evo and put down 490 whp at 22 psi but the driveline and the weight of that car don't get along and the timeslip will not either.
there are alot of clams out there , i don't believe shut up and put out . bring it and line it up and we'll see what story works at the tree.
everything else is a sales pitch. prove it i got nothing to hide |
I love Joe.
I want to have his children.  |
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blue_gsx
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| I heart Evo's |
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Chillinguy
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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this thread is pooop, but a sti they go 5's...
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F your Sh*t
1991 A/T talon - nees more love!!
2006 Gray Wrx STI- needs love! |
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Kwik GSeX
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1993 Eclipse GSX
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Posts: 3027
Location: Queens, NY
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Chillinguy wrote: | | this thread is pooop, but a sti they go 5's... |
0-30 maybe
And Gio we are arguing over an $18k mustang vs a $20k Evo. Or to go insofar as comparing new a $19k gt vs a $34k EVO. $15k will net you a lot of power. Z06 is in a class all its own period.
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Dennis
Team FKR.. aka "FKR_Thinktank"
Go BIG or go POOF!!
| Luke_Crankwalker wrote: | | Dennis is just the earth's maker, thats all. |
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TurboMike
NYCCDSM Moderator
98 Talon Tsi
98 Eclipse VR-4
Joined: 04 Nov 2001
Posts: 13561
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| hks-gst wrote: | | You guys are comparing a $70k Z06 to a $20K Evo |
Why is the Evo used and the Z06 new? How about a $40k used Z06 smoking a new $37k Evo? |
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Kwik GSeX
NYCCDSM Member
1993 Eclipse GSX
Joined: 16 Nov 2001
Posts: 3027
Location: Queens, NY
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| TurboMike wrote: | | hks-gst wrote: | | You guys are comparing a $70k Z06 to a $20K Evo |
Why is the Evo used and the Z06 new? How about a $40k used Z06 smoking a new $37k Evo? |
Damn even Mike came out of the woodwork for this one!! LoLoLoL!!
_________________
Dennis
Team FKR.. aka "FKR_Thinktank"
Go BIG or go POOF!!
| Luke_Crankwalker wrote: | | Dennis is just the earth's maker, thats all. |
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Remy
NYCCDSM Moderator
95 Talon Tsi
Joined: 15 Apr 2002
Posts: 1820
Location: Mt. Vernon
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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Stock block
http://vimeo.com/3531737
http://vimeo.com/3531337
Stock block
10.5@131mph FP Red
VIDEO-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8BKvLghF1E
529whp 465wtq@33psi
10.4 on pump gas and stock ecu
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/M...-93_195851.htm
Stock block
http://forums.evolutionm.net/drag-racing/391835-10s-stock-motor-evo-6262-a.html
Local friend of mine 10s on pump gas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEo0HfuVu48
My favorite evo of the bunch. This evo actually went 10.0 on a bone stock block and head. But that type of accomplishment obviously doesnt happen for everyone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jvdmzSViDY
The list goes on and on. I am not sure where you guys are getting your information but 10s or 500hp on a stock block is nothing special. It happens often. I local racer was making 615hp on pump and meth on the stock motor which never blew up. And like i said my boy ran 10s on pump and its a daily driver.
The 4g63 when built correctly can handle a lot more than people think. Even on stock pistons and rods. I do not consider the evo a sports car because I just don't know any other sports cars with 4 doors but for what its worth, its a great car. And I stand by my claim, that you break more shit on the evo or any car for that matter due to driver error. That point is escaladed when you are talking about drag racing. The car will not just randomly break a tranny or transfercase just because it wants to. And if something like that does happen then its certainly in the minority in the evo world. Because for every evo that goes down because of a tranfercase problem, another evo puts a stock transfercase in the 10's or 9's.
But again I have no knowledge of those domestics or how they perform, I havent even sat in a c6 much less work on one so I can not comment on what is actually better, but for a nice cheap street car. You can't go wrong with an evo.
I'm with Harry on this. The debate can go on forever. In the end, Who the hell cares
~back to work~
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Gone but never forgotten.
R.I.P Shane 5/8/2010. |
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hks-gst
NYCCDSM Moderator
1995 Eclipse GS-T
1998 Eclipse GSX
Joined: 08 Aug 2005
Posts: 2172
Location: Long Island, NY
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| TurboMike wrote: | | hks-gst wrote: | | You guys are comparing a $70k Z06 to a $20K Evo |
Why is the Evo used and the Z06 new? How about a $40k used Z06 smoking a new $37k Evo? |
last time I was pricing out a RS evo9 before I had bought a Subaru they were around 26k at the time a base z06 was $73k BOTH NEW I was rounding both cars they both are alittle more expensive then my round up. My point was that the fact that magazines compared a "cheap" sport compact car to a "super car" that should tell you something about the evo.
Dennis I have no words for you..except finish that stang and then tell us how cheap it is to get one built.
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Kwik GSeX
NYCCDSM Member
1993 Eclipse GSX
Joined: 16 Nov 2001
Posts: 3027
Location: Queens, NY
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| hks-gst wrote: | | TurboMike wrote: | | hks-gst wrote: | | You guys are comparing a $70k Z06 to a $20K Evo |
Why is the Evo used and the Z06 new? How about a $40k used Z06 smoking a new $37k Evo? |
last time I was pricing out a RS evo9 before I had bought a Subaru they were around 26k at the time a base z06 was $73k BOTH NEW I was rounding both cars they both are alittle more expensive then my round up. My point was that the fact that magazines compared a "cheap" sport compact car to a "super car" that should tell you something about the evo.
Dennis I have no words for you..except finish that stang and then tell us how cheap it is to get one built. |
Gio my car is not what you would call a "budget build".. If i had the inclination to build a street car then yes for under $10k I could of had a fully built setup to run 8's in a Fox Body (im talking tranny, engine and rear). Cannot compare my car as the motor being built is capable of 2500hp.. That costs money just like anyone else who builds a motor of that magnitude be it import or domestic.. The best part? The tranny, driveshaft, rear, tires and axles combined cost LESS than a Shep Tranny, clutch and Transfer case.
For the money I was sinking into the Talon to make 1000awhp unreliabley I built a SERIOUSLY detuned idiotproof 8 second Mustang that will be capable of going easy mid 7's with the right turbo combo and chassis..
Now give me a Fox Body and tell me you want 450rwhp for under $2k and ill show you how to git-er-done..
_________________
Dennis
Team FKR.. aka "FKR_Thinktank"
Go BIG or go POOF!!
| Luke_Crankwalker wrote: | | Dennis is just the earth's maker, thats all. |
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MikeL
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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Enzo can't solder, so mustangs must suck
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Remy
NYCCDSM Moderator
95 Talon Tsi
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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Impressive.
Good luck with the build Dennis.
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Gone but never forgotten.
R.I.P Shane 5/8/2010. |
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Kwik GSeX
NYCCDSM Member
1993 Eclipse GSX
Joined: 16 Nov 2001
Posts: 3027
Location: Queens, NY
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| MikeL wrote: | | Enzo can't solder, so mustangs must suck |
Jeezus one time he fucks up the solder job on my RC Motor and thats it.. He's got "THAT" reputation now.. LoLoL
That day WAS classic tho.. 
_________________
Dennis
Team FKR.. aka "FKR_Thinktank"
Go BIG or go POOF!!
| Luke_Crankwalker wrote: | | Dennis is just the earth's maker, thats all. |
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hks-gst
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1998 Eclipse GSX
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Posts: 2172
Location: Long Island, NY
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| Kwik GSeX wrote: | | hks-gst wrote: | | TurboMike wrote: | | hks-gst wrote: | | You guys are comparing a $70k Z06 to a $20K Evo |
Why is the Evo used and the Z06 new? How about a $40k used Z06 smoking a new $37k Evo? |
last time I was pricing out a RS evo9 before I had bought a Subaru they were around 26k at the time a base z06 was $73k BOTH NEW I was rounding both cars they both are alittle more expensive then my round up. My point was that the fact that magazines compared a "cheap" sport compact car to a "super car" that should tell you something about the evo.
Dennis I have no words for you..except finish that stang and then tell us how cheap it is to get one built. |
Gio my car is not what you would call a "budget build".. If i had the inclination to build a street car then yes for under $10k I could of had a fully built setup to run 8's in a Fox Body (im talking tranny, engine and rear). Cannot compare my car as the motor being built is capable of 2500hp.. That costs money just like anyone else who builds a motor of that magnitude be it import or domestic.. The best part? The tranny, driveshaft, rear, tires and axles combined cost LESS than a Shep Tranny, clutch and Transfer case.
For the money I was sinking into the Talon to make 1000awhp unreliabley I built a SERIOUSLY detuned idiotproof 8 second Mustang that will be capable of going easy mid 7's with the right turbo combo and chassis..
Now give me a Fox Body and tell me you want 450rwhp for under $2k and ill show you how to git-er-done.. |
Drive trains for a DSM are not as expensive as they used to be, you can now buy a Dogbox for a DSM for $2,800 beans...How much did you pay for your Mustangs trans?
Also a Shep spec Bushur bottom end cost around $5-6k off the shelf parts with filled block, add another 2k for a head and your at $7-8k for a long block that can run 7's and make 1000hp
I just happend to open up a Summit catalog that doesn't have the "best of the best" parts and I see long blocks going for $14-15k  I can't imagine what the "best of the best" long blocks for a stang cost?
_________________
-Giovanni
Last edited by hks-gst on Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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coszrp16
NYCCDSM Member
1993 Talon Tsi
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 447
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